In this episode of "Coffee The Ultimate Treat," we welcome Dr. Anna Sitkoff, a naturopathic physician and medicinal mushroom expert. Dive into the fascinating intersection of coffee and mushrooms, exploring how Chaga and Lion's Mane can enhance your brew with health benefits. Dr. Sitkoff shares her personal journey and insights into natural medicine, offering practical tips for incorporating these powerful fungi into your daily routine.

Brian Baulch: Welcome back everyone to Coffee the Ultimate Treat. It's great to have you all. We've got a wonderful guest, an amazing guest today, Dr. Anna Sitkoff. She's an ND, medical mushroom expert naturopathic physician, educator, entrepreneur, researcher, writer, and consultant. And while she's doing all that and juggling all that.

Brian Baulch: She's also got her own clinic. So let's deep dive in. And Anna, my first question is how did you get inspired to get started with all this and your profession?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, I mean, I've been interested in natural medicine from a young age. It was a very common thing in my household growing up. Yeah, just watching my parents going to naturopathic doctors and Chinese medical doctors in addition to kind of their allopathic medical care. And I grew up in a beautiful place called Lake Tahoe in California, very, yeah, beautiful in nature in the mountains. And so...

Brian Baulch: Okay. Yep.

Brian Baulch: Awesome.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Awesome.

Anna Sitkoff: It was always of deep interest to be into the natural world and the, yeah, especially like natural medicine in particular.

Brian Baulch: Awesome, fantastic. what got you interested in, is it from your parents that you got interested in the mushroom specializing?

Anna Sitkoff: in mushrooms. Yeah, I it was an innate interest. But it was definitely I wanted to go deeper after my dad had a cancer diagnosis and his Chinese medical doctor at the time who was working alongside his oncologist recommended a mushroom blend. And I had already been deep into botanical medicine studies and

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Mmm.

Anna Sitkoff: You know, mushrooms were like a very small part of that. But after my dad was prescribed mushrooms to use alongside his chemotherapy, I became even more interested. And so that really just, yeah, drove my interest and I got obsessed and did a lot of research and a lot of wild crafting, a lot of experimentation with different medicine making techniques.

Brian Baulch: Awesome.

Brian Baulch: Wow.

Anna Sitkoff: And then when I went to naturopathic medical school, I was able to continue that passion. And there's a laboratory there where I did laboratory research on mushrooms and cancer cells. And yeah, and it's been really a wonderful journey. And now it's like I'm in private practice and I'm able to actually be like prescribing mushrooms to my patients and seeing the clinical benefit in that way.

Brian Baulch: Wow.

Brian Baulch: Interesting, amazing. Just curious out of curiosity in the last five or ten years, have you been practicing for ten years?

Anna Sitkoff: So I've been in my medical practice for five years, but I've been studying mycology and botanical medicine for, I mean, almost 15 years. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Okay. Yeah, okay. So I'm just curious out of curiosity if you can give me, you know, since five years, has there been a big uptake for those who got some sort types of cancer coming to your clinic?

Anna Sitkoff: I think there's been more and more younger women diagnosed with breast cancer for sure. And a lot of younger people diagnosed with colon cancer than ever before. And those numbers are true. pretty sure, I mean, definitely nationally in the United States and most likely internationally that those younger people coming in with cancer is definitely a phenomenon. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Mmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay. Now tell me if you can be straightforward and tell me, I'm hearing a lot about turkey tail and everything and I mean I'm only just on the surface level of mushroom and intrigued by the functionality of it. So can you tell me a little bit about turkey tail and what do you see from it?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, so turkey tail has become kind one of the more well-known cancer mushrooms because in Japan, there's a drug called Crestin that's derived from a certain strain of compound from turkey tail mycelium. So when we're talking about mushrooms, when I say mushroom, we're talking about the above ground portion of the plant or the of fungal organism, I mean.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Anna Sitkoff: And when we talk about a fungal organism, it's made up of both mycelium and mushroom. The mycelium is the underground portion of the fungal organism. So with with turkey tail, the majority of the research that's done is actually on these two compounds. One of them is called PSP and one of them is called PSK.

Anna Sitkoff: These are polysaccharide peptides or sugar molecules that are attached to proteins. And those are not necessarily found in the mushroom itself. And there's patented techniques of how to extract those compounds out from the turkey tail mycelium to make drugs. And those drugs are used in cancer therapy in Asia.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: huh.

Brian Baulch: Right.

Anna Sitkoff: So it's actually like very, a little bit separated from the mushroom itself. And so people really like to say, turkey tail will cure cancer. Turkey tail is used for cancer treatment throughout the world in Asia and Eastern countries. And that's just not really true. It's more like these drugs that are derived from turkey tail mycelium. But what I'll say is that turkey tail, the mushroom itself also has

Brian Baulch: Right, interesting.

Anna Sitkoff: polysaccharide peptides that are immune modulating. They're going to increase your body's innate anti-cancer defenses. So your natural killer cells and your cytotoxic T cells. And that's good. We want that. Is that going to cure cancer? Probably not. Do I prescribe it to all of my patients who are going through chemotherapy? Yes.

Anna Sitkoff: because I think that when used alongside chemotherapy, especially in combination with other mushrooms like maitake and reishi, that it really helps to one, increase your body's own natural cancer defenses, and then also it does help to protect your healthy cells from the chemotherapy and radiation. So yeah, that's usually, that's like the most straightforward answer.

Anna Sitkoff: And then, you know, animals seem to respond really well to mushrooms. mean, humans are animals, but I'm talking about like dogs and cats. And I have heard some stories about, you know, people just using turkey tail mushroom for their dog's tumors or whatever, and that the tumor shrinks and there's significant improvement. But I would never just depend on that for a human.

Brian Baulch: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Wow.

Brian Baulch: Wow, interesting, amazing, amazing information. It sounds like it's really a deep research to be able to even get to the surface for a consumer like me, it sounds like it.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, there's a lot of nuance in medicinal mushrooms. I think that that's, yeah, that's kind of what I see is like my role is to kind of help educate the consumer and just the general public on kind of what what the truth is out there. And, and kind of dissect that nuance a little bit.

Brian Baulch: Yeah, excellent. Now, do you know much about the around the extraction? I notice there's a retailer here selling non-alcoholic extraction. It's got Cider vinegar, I believe, in it. It's one of the only ones here in Australia I've seen. Most of them are alcoholic extraction. Can you elaborate a little bit on that at all?

Anna Sitkoff: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, apple cider vinegar is not going to extract any of the real beneficial compounds that you want from the mushroom. you know, it's like if we think about, let's just take reishi mushroom, for example. Most people know about reishi mushroom. Reishi has these polysaccharides or these sugars, those are water soluble. And then it has triterpenes, which are fat soluble or alcohol soluble.

Brian Baulch: Right. Okay.

Brian Baulch: Right.

Anna Sitkoff: And then of course, there's also like these phenolic compounds and there's some proteins and some other water soluble components. And then the only components really that would be extracted in apple cider vinegar are minerals. And yes, mushrooms are kind of high in minerals. Like you could get some magnesium and zinc, probably a little bit of copper.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Mmm.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: from your mushrooms, but that's not really what we're looking for. It's like you could eat a lot of other foods for those minerals. And so if you're really looking for the immune modulating benefits, anti-inflammatory benefits, like all of that, then the benefits from Lion's Mane with brain health, like you're not gonna be getting any of that in an apple cider vinegar extract.

Brian Baulch: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay

Anna Sitkoff: But if people are interested in getting all of those alcohol soluble compounds without the alcohol, you can get it from fat. So they're lipophilic or fat soluble. you can, I mean, what I've been doing lately is actually just kind of boiling my mushrooms with bone broth, with like the fatty marrow bone.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Anna Sitkoff: And all of the fat from that marrow is going to extract the alcohol soluble and fat soluble components. And then you can just like drink that broth or use that broth to cook rice or whatever. So there's definitely ways to get all of that without alcohol. Apple cider vinegar is not a good way to do it.

Brian Baulch: interesting.

Brian Baulch: All right, hopefully that's very helpful information for those not saying anything counteractive to the business out there. It's doing it in Australia, but it may be doing it correctly and marketing correctly and that's all well and good. But yeah, it's very helpful information. Tell me about

Anna Sitkoff: Thank

Brian Baulch: Chagar and Lyons main and how beneficial from a coffee perspective and blending that with it, your traditional grounded Arabic, Brazilian coffee, well any coffee for, you know, grounded coffee for that matter. How beneficial and for particularly coffee lovers and entrepreneurs.

Brian Baulch: who are working long hours, starting out, trying to get their business kickstarted, whatever type of business it is, in any industry, how beneficial would you say those two combinations together in coffee would be for them?

Anna Sitkoff: Thank

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, well, so Chaga is kind of an interesting dual organism specimen. So I would say it depends like where the Chaga is coming from. If the Chaga is wild crafted, then it's going to have all of those medicinal components of the birch tree as well, which is kind of what's desirable and what we would want. Chaga is also just to be clear, an actual mushroom. So Chaga

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Anna Sitkoff: is the part of the chaga that you see on the tree is actually a sterile kinker. It's called a sclerotium. And it's about 15 % mycelial biomass plus the rest of it is like decaying birch tree matter. it's like chaga, as we know it is actually this like dual organism of birch tree and ininotus obliquus is the Latin name for chaga of that mycelium.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: And chaga is really high in antioxidants, so it's really high in phenolic compounds. And there was actually this study that I was reading recently where they were actually looking at chaga coffee, and then there was also some cordyceps and felinus in there as well, but they were looking at how the phenolic compound levels changed with the mushrooms and then without the mushrooms.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: And I mean, coffee on its own is such a strong antioxidant. It's like the, you know, the most abundant antioxidant that people consume worldwide. And so when you add the mushrooms, the phenolic compounds, it definitely increases. But what's interesting is that the antioxidant activity in this study, at least, didn't increase. So that's just kind of an interesting thing.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay, interesting.

Anna Sitkoff: And then Chaga also has those polysaccharides that I talked about before. So those polysaccharides are going to help to keep your immune system strong and, you know, increase your antiviral defenses and anti tumor defenses. So, you know, for all those entrepreneurs out there building their businesses, it's like very stressful. It's like a big, there's always a lot of opportunity for burnout. And so

Brian Baulch: Yep.

Anna Sitkoff: your immune system ends up being suppressed if you're under a lot of stress. so mushrooms can come in there and be really helpful for people. so having chaga in your coffee could potentially add some immune, immune supportive benefits. Chaga is also that wild crafted chaga when it is with that birch tree, it does tend to be high in oxalic acid. So for anyone who has

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: kidney stones, that is just something to be aware of. But if you add cream to your Chaga coffee, that the calcium from the cream will bind to the oxalic acid in the gut. And then you'll just excrete it out in your feces and it won't go to your kidneys. So I recommend having it with a little cream if you're worried about the oxalate content.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: Wow, interesting.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, and then Chaga also is just like really wonderful for gut inflammation. A lot of the studies out there that show that it's helpful for skin health. It's actually helps to heal the skin through helping to heal the gut. So that would be another kind of added benefit of having it in the coffee. And then, you know, moving on to Lion's Mane. So coffee in itself is kind of the best no tropic that we have.

Brian Baulch: huh.

Brian Baulch: huh.

Anna Sitkoff: the best, probably the best like antidepressant that we have as well. And so then you add Lyons Mane in there and you get kind of a little bit of additional benefit from the anotropic compounds in Lyons Mane. So those would be haricinones in the fruiting body and then urinocenes, which will only be found in the mycelium. Yeah, and then, I mean, Lyons Mane,

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Anna Sitkoff: in addition to having this kind of benefits for brain health, it's really the historical use and what I use it for a lot is that it really helps with gastrointestinal inflammation as well. So, you know, you're getting this from the Chaga and from the Lion's Mane that it's just really soothing to your entire gastrointestinal tract and it's feeding all of those good gut bacteria. So,

Brian Baulch: Wow.

Anna Sitkoff: The polysaccharides in mushrooms act as prebiotics. They feed the good gut bacteria and the more good gut bacteria you have, the less bad gut bacteria you have and the healthier your intestines are, the healthier your whole system is really. yeah, I mean, I think that.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: That's okay.

Anna Sitkoff: You know, there's a lot of mechanisms in which how mushrooms help with the immune system and help to modulate the immune system. And one of the main mechanisms is through supporting a healthy gut microbiome. What's interesting in some other studies that I was looking at where they're looking at mushroom coffee is that when the mushrooms are mixed with the coffee, the polysaccharide content actually goes down. So

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: you're not going to benefit from the polysaccharides as much when they're in coffee as you would if you just had the mushrooms on their own. Other things to consider there as well is like how, like what kind of powder is being mixed with the coffee. So if it's extract powder versus myceliated grain powder.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: versus just whole mushroom powder. So mushrooms have a pretty hard cell wall made of chitin. So that's like the same stuff that like crustacean shells and insect exoskeletons are made of. And when, and so all of those medicinal compounds like the triterpenes and the polysaccharides and

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Wow, interesting.

Anna Sitkoff: the amino acids, like all of that is going to be less bioavailable if the mushroom has not gone through a heating process. And so what I usually recommend to people if they're gonna be having mushroom coffee is to use powdered mushroom extracts to make those bioactive compounds more bioavailable. And of course it's like,

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: you know, you're brewing your coffee with hot water and so there is going to be some amount of extraction that happens there, but usually to really get those polysaccharides and stuff you need to like simmer the whole mushroom powder for a while and nobody really like simmers their coffee. But yeah.

Brian Baulch: Ha

Brian Baulch: Very interesting. So that should entertain our coffee lovers and entrepreneurs and help give them some sort of peace of mind that they're actually putting some incredible value into their gut and their flora system, correct?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, yeah. And I would say one other thing too, is that it really depends on the dose. So like how much mushroom is actually in your coffee? Like if the therapeutic dose is a few grams per day, is there a few grams of mushroom per cup of coffee that you're brewing? Like usually not. So you might want to supplement with them elsewhere as well, but.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Right, okay.

Brian Baulch: Okay.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Okay, very good, very helpful. Okay, so which for you from your perspective and experiences, which mushrooms pairs best with coffee for better immunity or focus?

Anna Sitkoff: I mean, when we're thinking about focus, I would say definitely Reishi and Lion's Mane. Yeah, and then I think like, I mean, flavor-wise, I think that Chaga tastes best with coffee. But yeah, and then actually I would add cordyceps in there as well.

Brian Baulch: Right, okay.

Brian Baulch: I Kai, I Kai.

Anna Sitkoff: So, you know, there's some cordyceps and lion's mane and reishi for focus probably. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Alright.

Brian Baulch: Okay. and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

Anna Sitkoff: Because of the effect. So cordyceps is, it can be pretty stimulating. So it kind of adds to the stimulating effect of coffee, but it doesn't have that same, it's like a very different kind of stimulation than like what you feel with caffeine. It's kind of like a calm yet focused and alert kind of stimulation that cordyceps brings.

Brian Baulch: Okay, okay.

Brian Baulch: Right.

Brian Baulch: And what's quite common type of word we use here in Australia with coffee, you get the jitters. Some people get the jitters if they come off it. Would you get that type of effect doing, know, supplementing it how we've been talking about?

Anna Sitkoff: So I think that mushrooms can probably help to counteract the jitters. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because generally, mean, especially reishi, it has such a calming effect on the nervous system that, yeah, it really, I think, helps to balance the kind of overstimulating effects that caffeine has.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm. excellent.

Brian Baulch: And what's one surprising mushroom fact every coffee lover should know?

Anna Sitkoff: well, here's a big one that, you know, as a mushroom coffee person, you might not like, but it is interesting. So coffee has tannins. When you blend polysaccharides and tannins, they form complexes. So for people out there that are blending their coffee, you know, with

Brian Baulch: If there's a few, that's okay.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Anna Sitkoff: butter or whatever. They're blending their mushroom coffee. The polysaccharides are not going to be in the form that you want them to be in for all of the immune modulating benefits if they're bound to those tannins. Yeah, so my recommendation is if you're putting mushrooms in your coffee, just don't blend it.

Brian Baulch: Wow.

Brian Baulch: Okay

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm. Mm, interesting.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, it'll change the chemical composition. That's my cool fact.

Brian Baulch: Okay, and if you don't mind me asking how did your father's cancer journey shape your mission with mushrooms?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, it shaped it so significantly. The research that I told you about that I did in naturopathic medical school was on the cancer cells that was the same kind of cancer that my dad had, which is lymphocytic leukemia. And so

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: huh.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Anna Sitkoff: I mean, I probably would never have done that research in particular with those cancer cells. And I also, think that when there's like an emotional component that is where your passion is derived from, it just creates this like stronger desire to learn. And if I hadn't had that experience with my dad having cancer and finding out about

Brian Baulch: huh.

Anna Sitkoff: about the mushrooms in that way. I don't know if my passion would be as strong as it is or if I would have as much of a drive to see oncology patients and I wouldn't have the same kind of understanding or even desire to learn about the specific mechanisms with mushrooms and cancer and the immune system. So yeah, I think it's kind of an underlying driver.

Anna Sitkoff: for sure.

Brian Baulch: Okay, my next question is a little bit personal, not directly personal but within my family. I have a personal female member of my family who has an ovary cyst, fairly large, about 18 centimeters, I think they said it was. Anyway, it's an ovary cyst and...

Brian Baulch: How would you go about consulting or, you know, just general, you know, just general quick, how would you go about it?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, is it a cyst or a tumor? Is it cysts?

Brian Baulch: Tumor... yeah, it's... what's that? It's... It's been prognosis. They don't know 100 % from... you know the... I've forgotten the specialist, sorry. But it's been prognosis as possible cancer, but they won't know unless they remove...

Anna Sitkoff: Is it benign? Is it benign? Like is it non cancerous?

Anna Sitkoff: Hmm.

Brian Baulch: every part of the female organ and that's what they want to do. They want to remove everything. That's here in Australia obviously so they want to remove everything and so of course my family member doesn't want to do that and of course once they remove everything you're going to need artificial, is that correct? Artificial hormonal therapy

Anna Sitkoff: Mm.

Anna Sitkoff: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: for me.

Brian Baulch: and then chemotherapy on top of that, they said. Okay?

Anna Sitkoff: Hmm. Yeah. What? How old is this person?

Brian Baulch: This person is 40 of 48

Anna Sitkoff: Okay. Yeah, interesting. mean, so I mean, 48 year old female is most likely in perimenopause. Perimenopause is like a wild no.

Brian Baulch: No, no, know she's not. She's not going through menopause.

Anna Sitkoff: So perimenopause is the time before menopause. And it's normal for hormones to be changing in the female body towards perimenopause from the age of 40, and even before that for some people. And during that time, there's a lot of variation in estrogen levels. It's kind of like an estrogen roller coaster. Ovarian cysts, and I'm talking about cysts, not

Brian Baulch: Okay?

Brian Baulch: Okay. Okay.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: Yes.

Anna Sitkoff: cancerous tumors, because it's not totally clear what's going on. Ovarian cysts are often driven by excess estrogen situations. So, you know, I would, if I was her doctor, I would be very curious about her estrogen levels and her progesterone levels, and to see if her progesterone levels were really low, and if her estrogen levels were really high. And that would be, I mean, my first interest.

Brian Baulch: huh.

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: And then I would look at things in her environment that might be associated. So there's a lot of what's called endocrine disruptors that can drive excess estrogen conditions. And these are like exposure to plastics and pesticides and...

Brian Baulch: Right?

Brian Baulch: huh.

Anna Sitkoff: perfumes, any kind of fragrance. That's all endocrine disrupting and kind of drives these estrogen excess conditions. So I would make sure that she's not exposed to any of those on a regular basis.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: What about Wi-Fi frequencies and Bluetooth and things like that?

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, I am not an expert in that and I don't know how I feel about it yet. It's like, you know, some people are really sensitive to EMFs and some people are really unaffected. And so it just totally depends. I don't think that EMFs are causing cancer, but I think that EMFs for some people, like it can cause disruption for their nervous system.

Brian Baulch: Okay, okay, I understand.

Brian Baulch: Right.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, I think that there's so many other things that have like good solid evidence that are problematic, like these all of those endocrine disrupting chemicals that I just mentioned. And that would be kind of like where I would start and look at all of those. Yeah, and so I don't know if you were hoping for a mushroom specific answer, but my answer is a little bit more, I put my physician hat on instead of my mushroom expert hat on for you.

Brian Baulch: Yeah, yeah, it's a detailed thing and every female, because we're talking about female, is unique I guess, know, of course, you know amongst different cultures would be different, right, also, yeah.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, every body processes hormones differently. And so for this person in your family, I'd be curious to see how their estrogen metabolism is. If they're not detoxing their estrogens well, then that would be another place to focus. The liver and the gut are kind of the two main areas to think about as far as estrogen metabolism and detoxification goes. So it's like, how healthy is her gut?

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sitkoff: And is there, does she have like a COMT gene mutation that's impacting the methylation of her estrogen? And is she able to excrete estrogens or are they recirculating? And is that what's driving the cyst? So those are all the things that I would be thinking about.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Yeah, I think she was also prognosis of having, what is it, sclerosis of the liver? Is that correct? Is that the correct word? What's that?

Anna Sitkoff: Hmm. You got fibrosis? Does she have liver fibrosis or?

Brian Baulch: yeah, don't actually know. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Sitkoff: That's okay. It's hard to do medicine without the whole picture. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to bring that up because I we know that it is quite familiar quite common Particularly here. Well, I don't know about America, but it's common here in Australia. Anyway her type of issue and problem so yeah, so Anyway Yeah, you got any closing thoughts and also how can people

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: get connected with you and we'd definitely love to have you back here sometime in the future and talk more about this. This is quite a fascinating, interesting topic and you sound like you've got amazing knowledge there and insights and experiences there, Anna.

Anna Sitkoff: Thanks. Yeah, this is all, you know, stuff that I'm thinking about all the time. So it feels good to talk about it and I have a lot to say about it. Yeah, I think that the main thing just as a closing remark is just for people to kind of think about like, the like why they're putting mushrooms in their coffee. And if you are using mushrooms alongside like

Brian Baulch: Yep.

Anna Sitkoff: chemotherapy and you're trying to help to treat your cancer or you have a viral infection and you're hoping to help to support your immune system in fighting that, you're probably gonna wanna get mushrooms elsewhere in addition. The mushrooms in your coffee are not going to be enough to move the needle with those deeper immune issues. If you're looking for just support with

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm, okay.

Anna Sitkoff: focus and maybe some changes in the flavor profile or something, then that's great. But maybe get that extra dose later in the day elsewhere as well. Yeah. And then, yeah, people can find me. So on my website, drhonest.coff.com, and I write a lot about mushrooms. I have a blog there where people can kind of really deep dive.

Brian Baulch: Okay, alright.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm.

Brian Baulch: Awesome.

Anna Sitkoff: And then I'm on social media. My Instagram is at Dr. Anna Sitkoff. And then for anyone in the United States, I have a medicinal mushroom supplement company called Lucidum Medicinals. And you can find that at lucidummedicinals.com.

Brian Baulch: Awesome.

Brian Baulch: Mm-hmm and what about international can I get your your products?

Anna Sitkoff: No, we're not we're not shipping international yet. Yeah. Not yet. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: Yeah, okay. Not yet, anyway. Yeah, and I know there's a lot of hoops and that too. Yeah, particularly here in Australia, I know a lot about our regulators. They don't even like deer antlers. A few years ago, they didn't even want deer antlers products to be...

Anna Sitkoff: So many hoops. Yeah, it would like really have to be worth it. Yeah.

Brian Baulch: over here and a friend of mine who's an entrepreneur eventually got it in here but he had to go through quite a few hoops to get around it you know so it's not a black market basically it's all interesting but anyway we'll get there and hopefully the world will get better at grasping wellness products

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah.

Brian Baulch: I hope.

Anna Sitkoff: Yeah, I hope so too.